I was curious to know what she wrote. Vanity Fair also reports that two years after John F. Kennedys 1963 assassination, Queen Elizabeth II opened a memorial for him at Runnymede in Berkshire. 'I mean it, too.'. Its a good conceit if only it were true. Robert Lacey, a historical consultant for the Netflix show, tells Vogue that while some of the events on the show are imagined, they arent unlikely. By signing up you agree to our User Agreement and Privacy Policy & Cookie Statement. NBC is quick to assure viewers ofThe Crown that the rivalry between Jacqueline Kennedy and Queen Elizabeth II almost certainly didnt shape foreign policy. Former US Secret Service agent Clint Hill shared details about this encounter in his upcoming book, "My Travels with Mrs. Kennedy . With my inexpressible sympathy, Jacqueline Kennedy. That was exactly my reaction, Menomama, exactly. And so Foys Elizabeth, eager to even the scales with Jackie, travels to the commonwealth nation of Ghana to prove that she, too, is a major player on the world stage. But a day has not passed that you and your husband have not been in our thoughts.the waste of a man who gave so much and had so much more. Jackie Kennedy, still wearing her pink Chanel suit, stands next to Lyndon B. Johnson as he is sworn in as President on board Air Force One. Back in 1961, two of the world's most famous (and favorite) couples ever met for the first time at Buckingham Palace: Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip and former US President John F. Kennedy. Thanks so much, Dorothy. Photographer Cecil Beaton wrote in his diary that Mrs Kennedy confided in him after the visit, reports the Telegraph. The Queen would later open the Kennedy Memorial at Runnymede in England in 1965, a vast pathway featuring a plinth inscribed with a quotation from John F. Kennedy's inaugural address. The opening ceremony of this monument was attended by Jackie and her children, Caroline and John Jr., and though what may have transpired between the two women at the memorial is not public record, we can assume that this time nothing but kind words passed between them. Because it rhymes with 'queen'?' Bryan Cranston, eh? Caroline Kennedy, the current U.S. Servants and honored guests alike rush to the windows to peek at the car as it arrives, and even the Queen's husband and consort Prince Philip (Matt Smith) can't contain his excitement at the arrival of the U.S. president and the first lady. Restoring a 1915 farmhouse plus one or two other passions. The bombing occurred as Birmingham's schools were being racially integrated for the first time and came to symbolize the depth of racial hatred in the South. Ha! The idea that Queen Elizabeth II (Claire Foy) and Jackie Kennedy (Jodi Balfour), two twentieth century female icons not only . Ad Choices. Queen elizabeth letter to mrs kennedy Kennedy' Queen Elizabeth puts a lesson from Jackie and locks herself is her study when write a ride Dear Mrs Departing. Within days ofthe Presidents assassination, the letters began to arrive. Next: Jacqueline Kennedy and Queen Elizabeth II met on other occasions, too. ), but have certainly heard so many stories and am still very drawn to any stories of the events of this day. I think that the personal tension between Elizabeth and Jackie is speculative. John F. Kennedy's funeral was attended by Prince Philip, but not Queen Elizabeth. Good job. All people who knew him greatly respected him, and I shall always keep the memory of my meetings with him. Next: The first lady was critical of this choice of the queens. I love contemplating how one tiny occurrence in history could lead to the world being completely different than it is today. First, the president and First Lady address Prince Philip and the Queen incorrectly, and therefore, impolitely. I love the word, eloquently to describe the letters of those who wrote their respectful regrets for the loss of President J. F. Kennedy. Claire Foy and Jodi Balfour as Queen Elizabeth II and Jackie Kennedy in Netflix's "The Crown" Season 2. Sample Of Reference Letter. That image is realJackie defiantly wore the bloody suit while standing in the photographs of Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson being sworn in as president on Air Force One, telling the aides who tried to help her, "Let them see what they've done.". And the queen wrote JFK to say, "It was a great pleasure to meet Mrs. Kennedy again." The queen honored JFK after he was assassinated. Just what were Queen Elizabeth's hobbies? Ambassador to Australia, and the only living child of President Kennedy and his wife, Jackie, issued a statement remembering the late Queen Elizabeth, who passed . Lets go to the record. In her letter, Maxine McNair likens her shock when she heard about the president's assassination with the shock she felt when her daughter was killed. . Sometimes when an actor is so readily identified with one particular role, it can be hard to shove that out of your mind when they play a new one. But thank you so, so much. I particularly liked how Jacqueline Kennedy wrote in such an intimate fashion to Mrs.Tippit. It's not confirmed, though it's plausible, that Jackie may have been under the good doctor's influence while visiting the queen. (1984), Sacherevell Sitwell (1993), Elizabeth: A Biography of Her Majesty the Queen (1996), America's Queen: The Life of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis (2000), Lucrezia Borgia (2005) and Diana (2007).She lives in London and is married to the 8th Viscount Bangor. Though Queen Elizabeth II may have resented having Jacqueline Kennedy at her dinner table, the monarch obviously kept things civil. The Queen arranges court mourning and writes her condolences to Mrs. Kennedy. However, Jackie supposedly later told Vidal: "I think the queen resented me. I think he represented hope to an awful lot of people. pic.twitter.com/fNJcPxso8G. In 2011, the 50th anniversary year of the Kennedy . Surprisingly, Im actually eager to read this. Jackie told Elizabeth how tiring it was to be on display as a public figure. On November 8, 1960, John F. Kennedy beat Republican Richard M. Nixon in a very close race. A sadness has come over the earth that it never knew. In fact, the rivalry may not have been obvious to any of the other guests in attendance at the banquet. The whole concept of time travel and altering the course of history is just ripe with possibilities. On The Crown, Jackie Kennedy trashes the queen as incurious, unintelligent and unremarkable and dismisses Buckingham Palace as second-rate, dilapidated and sad. Ouch! All the essentials: top fashion stories, editors picks, and celebrity style. We will always know where we were when first hearing the news. Thats quite a Yelp review. Beautiful post Barbara. 04:38 GMT 15 Jan 2014 It was my mother telling me to turn my TV on. Next: Queen Elizabeth II may have felt this when Jacqueline Kennedy arrived. How beautifully people expressed themselves, many with references to classic literature, the Bible, and poetry. A time in history that I will never forget. When President John F. Kennedy and his wife, Jackie Kennedy, visited Buckingham Palace in 1961, tensions brewed between the first lady and Queen Elizabeth. I was feeding my 11 day old son when my phone rang. It inspired a period of mourning at the palace, Newsweek notes. (LogOut/ Im not saying it didnt existyou cant say its false, you cant say its true, he says. ", As it turns out, The Crowncreator and writerPeter Morgan wasn't quite as hyperbolic as you'd expect. Id love to hear your impressions of it someday. He was my personal friend and I feel a personal loss.. A series of condolence messages sent after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated 50 years ago was released Tuesday from the personal papers of his widow, including a letter from the mother of one of four girls killed in the bombing of a Baptist church in Alabama during the civil rights movement. This one in particular speaks to me. JFK saved us from nuclear annihilation. Its a good conceit if only it were true. Cecil Beaton allegedly wrote in his diary that Jackie said she was unimpressed by the monarch and the palace. Once the paper is folded, place it in an envelope and send it to The King. As Vidal related to Democracy Now: "We all called her Jackie. The show's reference to Jackie being on prescription drugs does indeed have a basis in fact quite a scandalous one, as it turns out. Imagine taking the time to respond to all of these people who were so impacted by that tragic day. Next: The resentment probably began before the two met in person. Jacobson used his formula to treated the aches, pains, and lethargy of the rich and famous of the time, from the Kennedys to Marilyn Monroe. Hello Joanne, the book says that at one point three thousand people were working to open all the mail and record the names and return addresses. After " Matrimonium " created a gorgeous, inevitable collision of Elizabeth and Margaret, totally at odds . When President and Mrs Eisenhower visited the Royal Family at Balmoral Castle in Scotland in 1959, they apparently loved the little British breakfast treats, which were apparently more like thick . How accurate is The Crown's depiction of the 1961 meeting of the Kennedys and Queen Elizabeth II? Jackie Kennedy's Fashion Letters to Bergdorf Goodman: Jackie Kennedy's Letter and Coat Sketch Page 1. Roger and I were both in second grade and both remember it vividly. From the bestselling author of Kennedy Weddings and Diana and Jackie comes a powerful and moving collection of the condolence letters Jacqueline Kennedy received after the assassination of John F. KennedyIn the weeks and months following the assassination of her husband, First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy received more than one million letters. We shall always cherish the memory of that delightful evening., Unlike the depiction in "The Crown," there are no reports that Jackies criticisms got back to the Queen, and the year following the dinner, Jackie visited Elizabeth in lower-profile circumstances without her husband when the monarch invited her to lunch on March 28, 1962. You are much too humble, my friend but that is why you are so endearing! Sign up to British Heritage Travel's daily newsletter here. The queen knew the first lady wanted to be photographed with them. Jacqueline Kennedy reportedly told her friend Gore Vidal of the guest list, No Margaret, no Marina, no one except every Commonwealth minister of agriculture they could find.. Nobody called her 'Jacqueline.' By Scott Williamson / Nov. 12, 2021 9:21 am EST. Jackie was the classiest. The looks, books, cooks and travels of a somewhat curated life. We'll never know what the women said to each other behind closed doors, but it's clear that the queen reacted with deep grief and horror to the death of Jackie's husband. Simple observations, analysis, and common sense comments, Personal Blog of Angie McIntyre, Wellness & Performance Consultant, It's the possibility of having a dream come true that makes life interesting., Observations & Reflections from Home & Abroad from the Side-Kick Traveller, A Writer's On-Going Search for Just the Right Words, Saving The World From StupidityOne Blog At A Time, ~If life gives you lemons and you make lemonade, be sure not to squirt yourself in the eye while you do it ~, Passionate about Gardens and Flower Photography, Random, Life through the eyes of an artist. 2023 Cond Nast. The Washington Post reports that Jacqueline Kennedy also told Gore Vidal about her perception of the chemistry or lack thereof between Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip. In real life, there is some evidence that Jacqueline Kennedy was critical of Buckingham Palace and the Queen, said Carolyn Harris, a historian and author of Raising Royalty: 1000 Years of Royal Parenting. She explained: The legendary photographer Cecil Beaton claimed that Jackie was unimpressed with the palace furnishings and the Queens comparatively old-fashioned wardrobe and hairstyle during the 1961 visit. In the past five days you have joined him in showing the nation and the world what the word means. To revist this article, visit My Profile, then View saved stories. The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of Cond Nast. The paper quotes a letter from his uncle . I am so deeply distressed to learn of the tragic death of President Kennedy. , updated How did Queen Elizabeth react to JFK's death? Two things strike me about this book: One, its interesting to notejust who were contemporaries in 1963 and their common horrified reaction to the Presidents death. For the clarity of his vision and for his courage in fighting for the rights of Negroes and for peace. The possibly drugged-up Kennedys meet the queen and Prince Philip in "The Crown. Murdaugh is heckled as he leaves court, Ken Bruce finishes his 30-year tenure as host of BBC Radio 2, Missing hiker buried under snow forces arm out to wave to helicopter, Hershey's Canada releases HER for SHE bars featuring a trans activist, Insane moment river of rocks falls onto Malibu Canyon in CA, Fleet-footed cop chases an offender riding a scooter, Family of a 10-month-old baby filmed vaping open up. It was a delightful evening, very pleasant, very charming, very attractive evening! This episode focuses on the (fictionalized) relationship between Queen Elizabeth and Jacqueline Kennedy. Leaning on her star power, Jackie Kennedy insisted that her sister Caroline Lee Radziwill and brother-in-law be invited to the party. Like you, I had no idea either! Edward, the Prince of Wales (who later became King Edward VIII before abdicating the . According to Vidal's account, Jackie described the Queen as "pretty heavy-going" and told him: "I think the queen resented me. Dear Mrs. Kennedy. Both icons in their own right, the two women held powerful positions at a time in history when few others did. Distinguished members of the arts and societyEzra Pound, Noel Coward, Babe Paley, Langston Hughes, Oleg . While the hand of fate made Jack and me political opponents I always cherish the fact that we were personal friends from the time we came to the Congress together in 1947. The women met for the first time in June of 1961 when President Kennedy and his wife visited Buckingham Palace. Under pressure, she relents, but, by way of retaliation, singularly fails to invite Princess Margaret or Princess Marina, both of whose names Jackie has put forward. It was with deep personal grief that I learned about the tragic death of your husband, President of the U.S. John F. Kennedy. It starts just after the Kennedy assassination and ends with Johnsons election in 1964. So Elizabeth kept the princess off the guest list. In all, more than one million letters from all over the world were received. Though, Vidal suggests that it was perhaps Jackie who was jealous of the position of power held by the Queen, and the apparent cattiness of their interactions may have been driven byJackie's need to prove herself to the monarchy. FromWilliam O. Douglas, Supreme Court Justice: My heart is so heavy that words fail me. Wasnt one life enough to take on that day? We do know, however, that the infamous Max Jacobson, aka "Dr. Feelgood," visited the White House more than 30 times between 1961 and 1962. We'll explore the depiction of their interaction on the show, as well as reveal which parts are historically accurate. There were security concerns regarding the Queens visit to Ghana, but the tour was a success, said Harris. It seemed she knew exactly what to say and thats never easy when writing a condolence letter. Queen Elizabeth's drop scones recipe - a very British treat - was sent by Queen Elizabeth II to Dwight David Eisenhower, on January 24, 1960. . On Sunday, she will have reigned . (The "dots," however, are pretty realistic in this episode.) Newsweek adds, Well never know what the women said to each other behind closed doors, but its clear that the queen reacted with deep grief and horror to the death of Jackies husband.. The first lady wanted to invite her sister and brother-in-law, a Polish prince who had been divorced twice. Firstly she feels her presence would take away for the person being remembered, and second if she attended every funeral she would always been off to a funeral as she knows that many people. I Love you. I'm not saying it didn't exist. You may have heard that Queen Elizabeth II was never exactly a fan of Jacqueline Kennedy, wife of President John F. Kennedy. So her rule is she. The collection is only accessible by visiting the library, and is not available online. With the Queen Mother (Victoria Hamilton) already singing praises of Jackie Kennedy's grace and beauty before her arrival, crowds gather to cheer on the Kennedys' motorcade as it arrives at Buckingham Palace. In the 70 days leading up to the Queen's Platinum Jubilee celebration weekend, the British royal family's social media channels are sharing a notable image from each of her 70 years on the throne . As Newsweek notes, the infamous Max Jacobson also called Dr. I am so glad I didnt ramble and could add to the comments, Barb. The show ignores, for example, the complex, passive-aggressive situation that preceded Jackie and Elizabeth's meeting. An excellent play! A historical drama series,The Crownis a semi-biographical telling of the reign of Queen Elizabeth II, starringClaire Foyas Queen Elizabeth. Thanks so much, Mike. Wow, eight CDs. What a treasure to research and write a book about the condolence letters. Queen Elizabeth II had several reasons to dislike Jacqueline Kennedy after the two met (and fought over the guest list). My husband joins me in sending our heartfelt and sincere sympathy to you and to your family. Her father, John, was a wealthy stockbroker on Wall Street whose family had come from France in the early 1800s. . Next: This scandalous accusation about Jacqueline Kennedy may have some basis in fact. Queen Elizabeth II and Jackie Kennedy were two women that stood out over most others in their respective countries. First Lady Jackie Kennedy and Queen Elizabeth II on June 5, 1961 at Buckingham Palace. /The queen had her revenge, she confides to Gore Vidal. 'I think your (sic) the nicest lady in the whole world,' she wrote. The Crown doesn't suggest that Elizabeth knew the full horrors of Kennedy's assassination. Season two episode "Dear Mrs Kennedy" sees the Queen and JackieKennedy meet for the first time at Buckingham Palace. I Live in a Small Town in The deep South. Read more:Who Will Play the Royal Family in The Crown Season 3? Jacqueline Kennedys compassionate letter to the widow of the police officer killed that same day does, indeed, show true class. Queen Elizabeth II penned a top-secret letter to residents of Sydney, Australia and it won't be opened until the year 2085. I am Gloria Crayton. But the letters were what impressed me so in this post. At jackie to elizabeth saying that letter. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . And yet she remained unimpressed by the decoration of Buckingham Palace, the Queen's dress sense and her "flat" hair. You can't say it's false; you can't say it's true.". I think that the personal tension between Elizabeth and Jackie is speculative, Lacey explained. No Margaret, no Marina, no one except every Commonwealth minister of agriculture they could find., One account of the meeting does suggest a somewhat warm post-dinner exchange between Jackie and the queen, which mirrors a moment of bonding between the two women depicted on The Crown. Oh, those girls.". That includes a passive-aggressive catfight that Netflix left out ofThe Crown. Answer (1 of 9): Like most of the world, HM the Queen was shocked and horrified by the assassination of President Kennedy, whom she had as her guest for a state visit barely two years prior. Whats far less clear is whether a feud between Jackie and Queen Elizabeth II (Claire Foy) touched off a small-scale diplomatic tiff. One felt absolutely no relationship between them. That cant have sat well with the queen if or when she heard about the first ladys comments. I was too young to know about his death when it happened but I do remember the newspaper headlines when his brother was assassinated some years later. Vivian Leigh, and Gene Kelly voiced their sympathy, as did foreign dignitaries including Queen Elizabeth II, the King and Queen of Greece, and the Prince of Monaco. This year's Accession Day - on 6 February 2022 - marks 70 years since The Queen acceded to the throne on the death of her father King George VI. Claire Foy as the queen and Jodi Balfour and the first lady in Netflix's The Crown. It would be hard to not wish to mention how we mourned collectively. Then Jackie goes off and trash-talks Elizabeth, calling her a middle-aged woman so incurious, unintelligent, and unremarkable that Britains new reduced place in the world was not a surprise but an inevitability,and Buckingham Palace second-rate, dilapidated, and sad. That gets back to the British monarch, and Jackie, tail between her legs, apologizes months later, confiding in the Queen about her husbands infidelity and their (alleged) drug habits. On one of her official visits, she delivered a mysterious letter that cannot be opened until the year 2085. But she also retaliated by deciding not to invite her own more fashionable and risqu sister, Princess Margaret, and their aunt Princess Marina. When Queen Elizabeth II invited President John F. Kennedy and First Lady Jackie Kennedy to Buckingham Palace in 1961, it wasn't the first time the women had crossed paths. President John F. Kennedy and first lady Jaqueline Kennedy arrive for a private dinner with Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Phillip on June 5, 1961. Newsweek reports that according to historians, Queen Elizabeth II resented Jacqueline Kennedy before they even met. I know exactly what you mean about being a coward.me too and its getting worse the older I get. The photograph bore a message he had handwritten, To Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, with appreciation and the highest esteem, John F. Kennedy., It sounds like a sweet gesture. I turned the TV on and could not believe what I was seeing and hearing. A series of condolence messages sent after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated 50 years ago was released Tuesday from the personal papers of his widow, including a letter from the mother of . I am a Little Colored Girl, 7 years old in The Second Grade. Within days of the President's assassination the letters began to arrive with were. Sold for $1,250. Did you feel he was captured accurately? But there isone other letter of note I want to show you. No matter what was or wasn't said or done, theres one thing we dont have the heart to debunk about the meeting of the two powerful women: Jackie and Queen Elizabeths snuggle session with corgi puppies. Funny and sad stories about migration, travel and suburban life. Town and Country reports that Prime Minister Harold Macmillan described the evening in his diary as very pleasant., Kennedys chief of protocol, Angier Biddle Duke, used the same phrase when he spoke about the evening in a 1964 interview. It is not worth anything nor are the copies of the newspapers from the two cities close by to where we lived. "As a historical document, it's certainly not a dissertation," they reported, though, the episode captured the spirit of the encounter. According to his memoir, Secret Service agent Clint Hill ran up to the car and shoved Jackie back into the seat in order to protect her. You were so wonderful to feature all these famous peoples letters written to Mrs. Kennedy. Next: The queen responded in this way to JFKs assassination. By 1962, however, the Queen appeared to have forgiven Mrs. Kennedy's barbed remarks, graciously hosting her for a luncheon with her sister Lee Radziwill before writing JFK a letter giving him . JFK numbered among the many presidents whom the queen met over the . The Queen was described as being on "sparkling" form at the reception. Her brother-in-law, the Polish prince Stanisaw Albrecht Radziwi, was by this point on his third marriage, a fact that the stiff upper lip of the 1960s era British monarchy reportedly objected to. Thank you, Alison. Dear Mrs. Kennedy: Directed by Stephen Daldry. Wow, Sue, what a powerful memory youve shared with us. If youve watched Season 2, Episode 8 ofThe Crown, that may seem like an odd way to describe it (if you havent, stay far away from this articlethere are spoilers ahead.). That really happened. The interviews, held on deposit here at the Kennedy Library, were sealed for forty-seven years. The monarch, who died last Thursday at the age of 96, composed the . I was at Seattle University, walking up the stairs in the Liberal Arts Building when I heard the shocking news that Kennedy had been killed. So the queen invited the first lady to lunch on March 28, 1962. You knock my socks off with every post. Oh, Kristie, honestly, I had completely forgotten about him too until reading this book. Jackies old paranoia returns: She sees it as a plot to do her down. The first lady had some not-so-nice things to say about the monarch and her home. The first lady dressed for dinner in a sleek, blue silk Chez Ninon gown, while the queen wore a more old-fashioned a-line tulle dress. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Jacobson's "secret vitamin formula" indeed contained what we now know to be methamphetamine. The queen reportedly asked the first lady about her recent trip to Canada. The Queen has taken her role as Head of the Commonwealth seriously and undertaken Commonwealth tours. In other words: Her Majesty did not go on a high-stakes diplomatic odyssey just to get back at the first lady. In fact, Jackie had worked at the Washington Times-Herald as the "Inquiring Camera Girl" and she covered the coronation of the queen.. Years later, the president and first lady were invited to the palace amid growing . Just a thoughtful rumination on a sad subject. Do you think Lincoln wrote it or perhaps it was penned by his private secretary. The comments below have not been moderated, Bun in the Oven, coming June 2014: Couple announce they're expecting with hilarious video in the style of a horror film trailer, 'You could have ignored her': Mother writes a heartfelt thank you to the 'kind stranger' who entertained her autistic daughter during flight, Mom who lost both sons to fentanyl blasts laughing Biden, Two Russian tanks annihilated with bombs by Ukrainian armed forces, Isabel Oakeshott receives 'menacing' message from Matt Hancock, Pavement where disabled woman gestured at cyclist before fatal crash, Pro-Ukrainian drone lands on Russian spy planes exposing location, 'Buster is next!' Philip was nice but nervous. And Jackie did visit Queen Elizabeth several months later in March 1962. All of that added up to a tense situation before the Kennedys even reached the palace, which explains a bit more of the ill feelings between the two women on display in The Crown. A 10-year-old girl from Louisiana wrote Mrs. Kennedy and invited her to visit. President John F. Kennedy and first lady Jaqueline Kennedy arrive for a private dinner with Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Phillip on June 5, 1961. . Pat Skakel Cuffe; handwritten letter to Mrs. Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. . I never would have thought to write such a post, but this one was beautiful. The Crown suggests that Kennedy wasnt the only person who was skeptical of the queens newly cropped, curled hairstyle, but we dont know for sure whether Prince Philip or anybody else really joked about it. And then the heartbreaking letters from children. Next: The president offered this gesture. Business Letter Sample. She didnt want to remove it also since it had a part of her husband on it. My husband joins me in sending our heartfelt and sincere sympathy to you and to your family. According to author Sarah Bradford's Jackie Kennedy biography, "America's Queen," in the days leading up to the dinner, the queen had been pressured into also extending an invitation to Mrs. Kennedy's sister, Lee Radziwill, despite having had reservations about doing so, partially because of Mrs. Radziwill's status as a divorcee, according to Town & Country. That's God's will however, and not for us to questions,' she wrote. Vogue may earn a portion of sales from products that are purchased through our site as part of our Affiliate Partnerships with retailers. So right you are- class she certainly was It will take 63 years for the content of his letter, which was written in November 1986 . OK, so thats not exactly a compliment. The letter from the little girl and the one from Jacqueline Kennedy herself are especially touching. C'mon, we all know royals (whether actual royalty or the US equivalent) can be a little weird.
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