In the 2003 TV miniseries, Hrrem Sultan, she was played by Turkish actress and singer Glben Ergen. She's a hatun, not a legal wife, still had similar privilege as a haseki, her son didn't become sultan: all the facts point to her not being officially a sultana. Life in a Sultans harem was not glamorous and it certainly wasnt about love. Minna Rozen: A History of the Jewish Community in Istanbul, The Formative Years, 1453 1566 (2002). Everyone has a right to put their opinion and I just put mine. As we can clearly see from your contribution list. Give me one name of the mother of potential heir to the throne (like mustafa) who wasn't called Sultana after 1500. Leslie P. Peirce has written that it may have been either Anastasia, or Aleksandra Lisowska. Basic Books. Your email address will not be published. Thank you 113.203.177.1 (talk) 18:32, 28 March 2016 (UTC) The Venetian painter Titian is reputed to have painted Hurrem Sultan in 1550. [4] Among the Ottomans, she was known mainly as Haseki Hurrem Sultan or Hurrem Haseki Sultan. She wrote many love letters to Suleiman when he was away for campaigns. Osmanl tarihi, Volume 2. And there is lots of lots of doubts about the title of this woman. Timaru, 7910 However, some argue that she has Albanian roots. Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.161.124.138 (talk) 14:13, 11 April 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply], SO many false claimed about Mahidevran and a daughter of Sleyman , who called Raziye. Also, she became an important symbol of how ottoman consorts never had a permanent position in Harem and politics as it was only after Mahidevran with whom the Ottoman started respecting their royal consorts, it is obvious, that when Hurrem Sultan was given such elevation the same time the mother of heir apparent was alive and living in the Harem, that Mahidevran was also considered as Sultan's family member and hence the title. But at the end of the day, that's all irrelevant. Learn more about merges. And there is no problem in distinguishing the difference between her, Gulfem Hatun and Fulane Hatun. But with the same decree, Mustafa was appointed to govern Konya (middle Anatolia). [18] According to Bernardo Navagero's report, as a result of the bitter rivalry a fight between the two women broke out, with Mahidevran beating Hurrem, which angered Suleiman. https://books.google.com/books?id=VLVoAAAAMAAJ&dq, http://www.odatv.com/n.php?n=iste-gercek-mahidevran-0910121200, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=tjFpAAAAMAAJ&dq=mahidevran+sultan&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=mahidevran, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=JYk-AQAAIAAJ&q=mahidevran+sultan&dq=mahidevran+sultan&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=ZXUQBwAAQBAJ&pg=PT95&dq=mahidevran+sultan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7ntDe0sjKAhUGZg8KHRUPAg8Q6AEIOTAG#v=onepage&q=mahidevran%20sultan&f=false, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=SAIZCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA86&dq=mahidevran+sultan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwix5YWtk83KAhUMHxoKHSPbApQQ6AEIRTAI#v=onepage&q=mahidevran%20&f=false, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=5WT1BQAAQBAJ&pg=PT240&dq=mahidevran+sultan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwix5YWtk83KAhUMHxoKHSPbApQQ6AEITTAJ#v=onepage&q=mahidevran&f=false. In Albenian Glbahar means Rosne Pravnere. 113.203.190.165 (talk) 02:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Why did popular culture assume, for example, that Hurrem was participant in the executions of Ibrahim Pasha and Mustafa? Brian Walters and Mark Walter, both of Timaru, have started the new year with a kick and a punch, having just completed their Seido From Timaru to Melbourne, to appearing in the hit television showRupauls Drag Race: Down UndertoRentthe musical, Bailey Dunnage is returning to his home town A Guinness World Record would be the icing on Millie Roses (cup)cake.The Timaru cupcake designer drew a crowd outside her Stafford St boutique on Christmas is about many things, including the gift of giving, and that is exactly what the Bikers Rights Organisation of New Zealand (Bronz) Timaru South Canterbury artist Hamish Cameron has drawn on 30 years of painting and poetry to bringFolioto life. commercial banks of the capitalist states book; nicholas martin roosevelt; beiersdorf cleveland, tn closing; the difference between body, soul and spirit Subscribe to our free weekly newsletter and stay up to date on History of Royal Women's articles! You can infer and speculate and theorize all you want, but history is history and I find it highly disrespectful and arrogant that you think your abstractions are worth more than the reality of events. New Zealand She became one of the most powerful and influential women in Ottoman history as well as a prominent and controversial figure during the era known as the Sultanate of Women. A portrait of Roxelana in the British Royal Collection, c. 160070, A painting of Hurrem Sultan by a follower of Titian, 16th century, Roxelana and Sleyman the Magnificent by the German baroque painter Anton Hickel, (1780), Engraving by Johann Theodor de Bry, (1596), 16th century oil on wood painting of Hurrem Sultan, Tribute to Roxelana on 1997 Ukrainian postage stamp, Serlevha (illuminated frontispiece) from the Endowment Charter (Waqfiyya) pertaining to the architectural complex commissioned by Hrrem Sultan in the Aksaray district of Istanbul. There is a possibility of both titles therefore no title should be put in. Mahidevran was: theoretically, the daughter of a hatun, a birinci kadin, but never a sultana: she didn't legally marry Suleyman. She imprinted her seal and watched the council meetings through a wire mesh window. The series follows the reign of Sultan Sleyman (r. 1520-1566), known in the West as Suleiman the Magnificent. Hurrem Haseki Sultan, or Roxelana, is well-known both in modern Turkey and in the West, and is the subject of many artistic works. This woman could be Mahidevran or could also be Gulfem or the first unknown wife of Suleiman. [19] According to Necdet Sakaolu, a Turkish historian, these accusations were not truthful. - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:33, 28 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2: Two of your sources are at stake (Colin Iber's and Peirce's), please read page 136 of Colin's book, this gives definition of Slave in general term, so calling any member of Sultan's family a slave does not necessarily makes them a slave by origin, and P simply used a text from Alberi, P herself only called M a concubine. While "XXX son of Abdullah" maybe a son of a convert slave, you cannot say that Khalid son of Abdullah or Hussein son of Abdullah are also slaves. [44] This tragedy marks the first time the Ottomans were introduced on stage in France. Former lover of Sultan Suleiman.But who was she before? [11] After the wedding, the idea circulated that the sultan had limited his autonomy and was dominated and controlled by his wife. Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.248.138.199 (talk) 06:06, 14 October 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply], I removed a painting of Rosne Pranvere from the article. Although he never visited Istanbul, he either imagined her appearance or had a sketch of her. Popular culture calls her that way because in some theatre plays she's erroneously addressed like that, just as any work of FICTION. Suleiman (r. 15201566) actually had multiple sons, almost all of whom would predecease him. By the time he became Sultan, he had three: Mahmud, Mu Does the translation really say she was from Euboea?? No need to change the title. () LUCKYEYE GROUP ALSO MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES AS TO WHETHER THE INFORMATION ACCESSIBLE VIA THIS WEB SITE, OR ANY WEB SITE WITH WHICH IT IS LINKED, IS ACCURATE, COMPLETE, OR CURRENT. And for your information, she wasn't the mother, sister, aunt or main wife of the sultan: she wasn't a sultana, even when a theatre play calls her that. Therefore they can't be used. In the 20112014 TV series Muhteem Yzyl, Hurrem Sultan is portrayed by Turkish-German actress Meryem Uzerli from seasons one to three. Of these, Mahidevran's son Mustafa was the eldest and preceded Hurrem's children in the order of succession. She had a Kira who acted as her secretary and intermediary on several occasions, although the identity of the kira is uncertain (it may have been Strongilah[39] or Esther Handali[citation needed]). If you are not convinced we can try to get this on reliable sources noticeboard. Hurrem and Mahidevran were 2 main consorts. Hurrem's contemporaries describe her as a woman who was strikingly good-looking, and different from everybody else because of her red hair. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mahidevran_G%C3%BClbahar&type=revision&diff=713103324&oldid=713093101, https://www.google.com/search?q=mahidevran+hatun&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=mahidevran+hatun&tbm=bks, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=9SrUAAAAMAAJ&dq, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=JYk-AQAAIAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=ZXUQBwAAQBAJ&pg=PT95&dq, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=tjFpAAAAMAAJ&dq, https://www.google.com.pk/search?q=mahidevran+sultan&rlz=1C1CHWL_enPK572PK572&oq=mahidevran+sultan&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60l2j69i65j69i60j0.3952j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=mahidevran+sultan&tbm=bks, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ottoman_titles_and_appellations, http://www.theottomans.org/english/family/harem2.asp, http://www.theottomans.org/english/glossary/index.asp, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=5WT1BQAAQBAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s, http://www.theottomans.org/english/references/index.asp, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=9VYNAQAAIAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=b48lAQAAMAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=-2MMAQAAMAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=h27sAAAAIAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=4xlIAAAAMAAJ&q, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=4ddqaCdZdZ0C&pg, https://books.google.fr/books?hl=fr&id=nktpAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=mahidevran, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=9VYNAQAAIAAJ&q=mahidevran+kadin&dq=mahidevran+kadin&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_pvmNi-nLAhVCNxQKHX11Bx0Q6AEILDAC, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=b48lAQAAMAAJ&q=mahidevran+kadin&dq=mahidevran+kadin&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_pvmNi-nLAhVCNxQKHX11Bx0Q6AEIMjAD, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=b48lAQAAMAAJ&dq=mahidevran+kadin&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=mahidevran, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=9VYNAQAAIAAJ&q=mahidevran+kadin&dq=mahidevran+kadin&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj895vvl_DLAhVFHxoKHWzlD90Q6AEILDAC, https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=hCEtAQAAIAAJ&q=mahidevran+Ba%C5%9F+kadin&dq=mahidevran+Ba%C5%9F+kadin&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwijqeKzmPDLAhVDMhoKHa4wDm0Q6AEINjAE, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mahidevran&oldid=1013384743, Unknown-importance biography (royalty) articles, Wikipedia requested photographs of royalty and nobility, Unknown-importance Women's History articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, It is requested that a photograph or picture of this person be, This article has not yet received a rating on the project's, raziye was born 1525 her mum's mahidevran also mahidevran was Circassian noble that is mahidevran's nephew's interview. Another conflict occurred when Ibrahim and his former mentor, skender elebi, repeatedly clashed over military leadership and positions during the Safavid war. Why popular theatre plays describe her character despite strangers of all types being forbidden into the harem? Around 1530, Mustafa was appointed to govern Manisa, as a part of his education and old Turkish tradition. [6] 113.203.150.188 (talk) 02:19, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Popular culture and Ottoman court etiquette are two different things. Adding something as controversial as ""she was a slave"" as can be seen here would only draw unnecessary attention of the fans and/or may or may not be alleged descendants, as your content was more like a statement rather than a neutral point of view. If interviews can be cited in Wikipedia for every living or dead person, why there is so much debate in this one? 190.218.117.86 (talk) 01:30, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Actually you are the one making subjective propositions here. It was the first complex constructed in Istanbul by Mimar Sinan in his new position as the chief imperial architect. WebThe result of the strife for Mahidevran was that she was exiled with her son Mustafa to live in the province of Manisa, where the latter became a Sultan governor. I dont see why someone should expand these articles as seen from the title and the heated discussion on chief consort below that even sources are not enough and I just cant do such long discussions. [21], Around 1533/1534 (the exact date is unknown),[11] Suleiman married Hurrem in a magnificent formal ceremony. Thank you. Her influence with Suleiman made her one of the most powerful women in Ottoman history and in the world at that time. Who were her parents? After the death of Suleiman's other sons and his ascension to the throne in 1520 she acquired the rank of mother of the Sultan's eldest son. Mahidevran's name ( Turkish pronunciation: [mahidevan], Persian: ) means "one who is always beautiful", "one whose beauty never fades" or "beauty of the times" in Persian. Also please keep the recent source in mind about an interview with her alleged descendant. She wasn't able to smile as she once did, and she didn't show much generosity towards her Mahidevran madegreat efforts to protect her only son from assassinations, but she could not prevent his death. commercial banks of the capitalist states book; nicholas martin roosevelt; beiersdorf cleveland, tn closing; the difference between body, soul and spirit And Mahidevran was the proud mother of Sehzade Mustafa,who was the most potential and talented heir apparent to the throne.And Mahidevran was not like the other Consorts of Suleiman,like Gulfem or Fulane.After the death of the sons of other consorts by diseases She was the mother of only son of Suleiman the magnificent and according to the ottoman tradition sje was Suleiman's Bas kadin,which was the most powerful position for a Sultan's consort before creation and after abolition of the title Haseki Sultan.As Leslie P. Pierce said that during Suleiman's reign the title for Queen mother, Princesses and Sultan's chief consort changed to Sultan from Hatun.And other ordinary consorts of Sultan held the title Hatun.And Mahidevran Sultan was favorite and chief consort of Suleiman before hurrem,and she was the mother of crown prince of the ottoman empire. Thank you From Khondoker Jobair. This is your own point of view that just because she was called cariye she was of non-notable family. Since that title was created for Hrrem, this does not affect Mahidevran, who was important nonetheless as the mother of the oldest prince, but not a Haseki. Empress of the East: How a European Slave Girl Became Queen of the Ottoman Empire. Let's figure it out.#sultantv #ottomanempire #magnificentcentury #ottomanempirehistory She was presented to Suleiman when he was still a prince. Phone: The references you've cited present a clear inconsistency with defined Ottoman titles and therefore they are invalid.190.218.117.86 (talk) 16:57, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], This is the point, whether she was a main wife or not. It turned out to be a certain Said Perizad Temryukoglu. Even so, a Sultan was NOT allowed to have more than 4 Kadins at a time (Brinci Kadin, Ba Kadn or Sultan Kadin was the first ranking wife), but can have as much concubines as he liked. I shall wait for your response until few days then revert your changes, if you are unable to prove that this "Abdullah" was indeed a slave and not a free person, in which case, M would have been a "gifted wife" (married to S not legally but rather tough Nikah 'urfi). After that, although Hurrem's successor Nurbanu Sultan and her successor Safiye Sultan exchanged letters with queens, there is no other example of a female sultan who personally contacted a king other than Hurrem Sultan. Mahidevran and Mustafa lost one more time, now Selim (the second son of Hrrem) became the governor of the Manisa. If you are, however, still convinced that only Peirce's book is authentic source for the Ottomans, try putting this "concubinage" information in Ottoman Empire in details as explained by Leslie and see the response of Turks and Ottoman followers by yourself. This section is full of "possible" origin theories, so mentioning any ""possible theory"" is no violation of any principal. She was in the second rank after Hafsa Sultan(Valide Sultan) in the harem according to the Ottoman tradition. Mustafa attended to his father during the Persian war, despite his mothers warnings. If you can't answer logically or factually, then don't bother polluting this section with your not so smart "History" idea. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 22:11, 1 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Little Prince Mehmet (named after Mustafas half-brother) wasexecuted at just six years old. Many books (you may easily google) have also referred to this website for references. [9], During the reign of Selim I,[10] which means some time between 1512 and 1520, Crimean Tatars kidnapped her during one of their CrimeanNogai slave raids in Eastern Europe. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 01:47, 29 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I beg to differ, in many books (arts, literature whatever you may call) she has been known as Sultana. You completely twisted the question and answered what I didn't ask. This tells how important and high ranking Birinci Kadins were (see any ottoman dictionary you like to see what Birinci Kadin means and what was their positions in early history of Ottoman.) 113.203.177.1 (talk) 18:52, 28 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Dear Keivan.f, If you see above, I and 2 other users have written a novella on the "chief consort" subject. 18th century portrait of Hurrem Sultan kept at Topkap Palace. hurrem. After Valide Sultan's death, Mahidevran Sultan takes the lead of the harem. At his mothers funeral, Murad was supposed to remain in the palace during the funeral. Yet they were called Sultana for being Sultan's Kadins (Wives) You have a very little knowledge you are only referring to a few (if not one) online source and claiming that was it. ehzade Mahmud (November 1512 - 29 October 1521); This page was last edited on 21 March 2021, at 10:11. Not hesitating for a second thought, he offered his beautiful daughter, as a gift, to the young prince." Sultans had previously married only foreign free noble ladies. Other sources indicate that Mahidevran is of Abkhaz origin.Recently, I found quite interesting information on the Internet, from which I learned other details about the origin of Mahidevran Sultan.A few years ago, a man declared that he was a descendant of Mahidevran Sultan. 113.203.158.58 (talk) 00:23, 8 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I request a change of title, to revert it back to its original name (which was only "Mahidevran") and maintain its protected status. Simply put, a natural death is one that occurs due to an internal factor that causes the body to shut down, such as cancer, heart disease or diabetes. Instead, he attended it. [16]:131, Her joyful spirit and playful temperament earned her a new name, Hurrem, from Persian Khorram, "the cheerful one". [16]:132, Many years later, towards the end of Suleiman's long reign, the rivalry between his sons became evident. In a letter to Philip II of Spain, the painter claims to have sent him a copy of this "Queen of Persia" in 1552. You did not saw that did you? On the contrary, I sympathize with Mahidevran Hatun. Life in a Sultans harem was not glamorous and it certainly wasnt about love. Mahidevran ga [16]:131 After Hrrem resided at Topkap it became known as the New Palace (saray- jedid).[28]. Interviews are constantly being used in Wikipedia for every notable person, why neglect this one? There are reasons to believe that these two letters were more than just diplomatic gestures, and that Suleiman's references to brotherly or fatherly feelings were not a mere tribute to political expediency. Sources indicate that Hurrem Sultan was originally from Ruthenia, which was then part of the Polish Crown. [46], In 2007, Muslims in Mariupol, a port city in Ukraine opened a mosque to honour Roxelana.[47]. Interviews of "alleged descendant" are not reliable sources for an history article, and the burden of demonstrating their reliability falls upon the editor who want to introduce them, as is written at WP:INTERVIEWS. Burial. That's very funny!!! 125.209.82.212 (talk) 15:03, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], We see that Birinci Kadin is what a woman who has bore a first child; you're overlooking what I said: it was Hurrem who married legally Suleyman and broke the 200 hundred tradition, not Mahidevran; in any case, she can't be called a sultana. We will review the memorials and decide if they should be merged. Trk Tarih Kurumu Basmevi. Nedim Ardoa (talk) 06:21, 31 January 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], She was an Albanian; her father, Abdullah Recai was a musician and her brother was Nakkashan Adem. [33] Her rehabilitation had been possible after the death of Hurrem in 1558. Like every woman in the harem, there is little information about her early life; she was from either Circassia or Montenegro. Not to mention that "was a chief consort" doesn't make much sense, because a implies that there is more than one which is a contradiction to the meaning of chief. You can cite thousands of pop culture books with erronous facts, rumours and misconceptions. The motion that all these history books are dramatized or contain anachronism can't be true. 113.203.156.141 (talk) 23:52, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], First of all, those references you've cited are: 1) popular culture based books 2) recent and based on art and theatrical depictions; as such, these references are unfounded and misinformed when it comes to Ottoman history. Mahidevran wasn't a legal wife nor became the mother of a reigning sultan; you should read your own sources too, since it specifies the differences between a concubine and a legal wife.190.218.117.86 (talk) 20:28, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Sorry I am not making excuses I just refuse to believe that a "Brinci Kadin" wasn't called Sultana when she was serving as a mother of heir apparent and living in the Harem the same time title "Sultan" was started being used for Sultan's consorts. In the end, they fought and Mahidevran beat Hrrem or Hrrem let herself be beaten. And you said that her being called Hatun or NOT being called Sultana is a Fact. [9][10], Though Mahidevran Sultan may not have been a Haseki, she was the mother of ehzade Mustafa, the eldest surviving son of the reigning Sultan and the crown prince of the imperial throne. [22] It was only possible for Hurrem to marry Suleiman after the death of Hafsa Sultan. The death of television icon Betty White received a lot of attention in popular culture. [12], European ambassadors of that period called her la Rossa, la Rosa, and Roxelana, meaning "the Russian woman"[13] or "the Ruthenian one" for her alleged Ruthenian origins. [3] She entered the Imperial Harem, rose through the ranks and became the favourite of Sultan Suleiman. She often suffered from lack of money 2 until Suleimans death; Sultan Selim II later increased her income to help her. Two of her letters to King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (reigned 15481572) have survived, and during her lifetime the Ottoman Empire generally had peaceful relations with the Polish state within a PolishOttoman alliance. I request moderators to change the title of this page to "Mahidevran" only and if they find it pertinent as well, to retain the speculations in a subtopic within the page. He appointed to govern Konya instead of Mustafa. Pathetic joke!! In the Ottoman imperial family tradition, a sultan's consort was to remain in the harem only until her son came of age (around 16 or 17), after which he would be sent away from the capital to govern a faraway province, and his mother would follow him. Nedim Ardoa (talk) 08:32, 8 January 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply], The page Mahidevran Sultan should be moved to Mahidevran Glbahar Hatun because Mahidevran was never a concubine or a Haseki Sultan and Hrrem Sultan was the first Haseki Sultan.--Retrieverlove 1:09, 22 June 2014, According to Leslie P. Peirce, prior to the creation of the title Haseki Sultan for Hrrem Sultan, all the Ottoman consorts carried an alternative royal title, "Hatun".But Leslie P. Peirce also said that during 16th century(Suleiman's reign) the title Hatun for a valide,princesses and Sultan's consorts were changed by Sultan(it's called Sultana in the harem to distinguish between male and female). Mahidevran gave birth to her son with Sultan Suleiman, Mustafa, at only 15 years old. Contrary to popular belief, this did not immediately make her the Ba Kadn or head consort as Suleiman had two other living sons at the time. WebDeath 3 Feb 1581 (aged 8081) Bursa, Bursa, Turkey. Bas kadin literally means "Head Woman", and if this "head woman" status didn't exist at that time then why she has been referred as "Ba kadin" or Birinci kadin by numerous books? Born in Ruthenia (then an eastern region of the Kingdom of Poland, now Rohatyn, Ukraine) to a Ruthenian Orthodox priest, Hurrem was captured by Crimean Tatars during a slave raid and eventually taken to Istanbul, the Ottoman capital. It is believed that Hurrem's influence contributed to Suleiman's decision. For this reason, she has become a controversial figure in Ottoman history subject to allegations of plotting against and manipulating her political rivals. [10] [11] Find a sensible answer please and then come back with your personal comments. In 1541, when Mehmet (Hrrems first son) reached the proper age to be local governor, tensionsbetween two women rose again. [20] After the death of Mustafa, Mahidevran lost her status in the palace as the mother of the heir apparent and moved to Bursa. [41], Hurrem is known to have been very generous to the poor. What matters is, as Nurbanu wasn't a legal wife, she was still a kadin; she is mentioned as a sultana in wikipedia because she became Valide Sultan. WebMihrimah Sultan (1522 - January 25, 1578) was the daughter of the Ottoman Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent and his wife Hrrem Sultan. WebAnd Mahidevran was the proud mother of Sehzade Mustafa,who was the most potential and talented heir apparent to the throne.And Mahidevran was not like the other Consorts of In this case, Suleiman not only broke the old custom, but began a new tradition for the future Ottoman sultans: To marry in a formal ceremony and to give their consorts significant influence on the court, especially in matters of succession. In 1543, right after the sudden death of Prince Mehmet, the womens war started upagain. She probably acted as the sultan's advisor, wrote diplomatic letters to King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (r.15481572) and patronized major public works (including the Haseki Sultan Complex and the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse). Mustafa had a great sympathy towards his half-brothers, especially to Beyazt and Cihangir (the youngest ones). Look up Idar of Karbardia, he did existed and like I said "even if there is a slightest possibility" then making a statement would be wrong. For the series' last season, she is portrayed by Turkish actress Vahide Perin. As Mulkhurub Bahar Idarovna blossomed into an eye dazzling beauty, her father saw this as an opportunity to strengthen the political relationship between the Caucasus and Ottoman Dynasty. Suleiman started to see him as a great danger to his rule. In one of her letters, she wrote: Under his pen name, Muhibbi, Sultan Suleiman composed this poem for Hurrem Sultan: "Throne of my lonely niche, my wealth, my love, my moonlight. According to reports of theVenetian ambassador, Mustafa was the whole joy in his mothers life, and Mahidevran was a highly effective figure in her sons court. According to a source he was executed that very year on charges of planning to dethrone his father; his guilt for the treason of which he was accused remains neither proven nor disproven. [31], A skilled commander of Suleiman's army, Ibrahim eventually fell from grace after an imprudence committed during a campaign against the Persian Safavid empire during the OttomanSafavid War (153255), when he awarded himself a title including the word "Sultan". Here are some sources (regardless of their nature) they contradicts the motion that she wasn't called Sultan. Note that I'm not saying that Mahidevran was not chief consort before the title Haseki came into use, but it's clear that she didn't continue to hold the title. If you ask about Istanbul, the city still suffers from the plague; however, it is not like the previous one. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. 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Hurrem and Mahidevran really did fight, but Mahidevran Turbesi5.jpg 320 240; 21 KB. WebRoxelana was not strikingly beautiful, but she had a pleasing personality (her Turkish name, Hrrem, means joyful one), and she quickly made a special place for herself in the harem. If it was up to people making subjective propositions for every wikipedia page, then there would be millions of the same subject; there can't be 6 billion wikipedia pages of the sun, there can't be 6 billion pages wikipedia pages of earth, and of course there can't be 6 billion pages of Mahidevran. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 05:37, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], A few sources does claim she was a wife. For Sultan Selim I was indeed the best King the Ottomans had, up until then. She did served as a "cheif consort" (bash Kadin) before Haseki Hurrem Sultan. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 20:52, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], It is stated that kadins and hasekis carried equal rights in the harem, so why are you so passionate to call her sultana if she wasn't married to Suleyman? Learn how and when to remove this template message, CrimeanNogai slave raids in Eastern Europe, De moribus tartarorum, lituanorum et moscorum, "2 Reasons Why Hurrem Sultan and Empress Ki were similar", "Ottoman Empire History Encyclopedia - Letter H - Ottoman Turkish history with pictures - Learn Turkish", Constantinople: City of the World's Desire, 14531924, "Hrrem Sultan: A beloved wife or master manipulator? [16]:132 Although she was Suleiman's wife, she exercised no official public role. Best R. - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:08, 25 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2, your provided sources does not particularly points at M's father. I'm a bit puzzled that when it was first added on Turkish WP, the year was 1581. Above all, her being mother of heir apparent is not a popular culture but a fact. Whatever sources we can find, half of them supports the Hatun theory, the other half supports Sultan theory. That same year ambassador Navagero wrote, It is impossible to describe how much he is loved and desired by all successors to the throne. It is traditionally believed that Hurrem, along with her daughter Mihrimah and her son-in-law Rustem, orchestrated Mustafas execution by turning his father, the Sultan, against him. Selim could have helped Mahidevran out of guilt that he lived and became Sultan while her son did not. Partly. Its was Mahidevrans fault that Sultan Suleiman focused all his attention on Hrrem Sultana. Simply because Mahidevran was too proud and wan (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Mahidevran was chief consort as a mother of the oldest surviving son of Suleiman the Magnificent. I guess the authors were inspired by Illuminatis;) (just a joke, no offense) Anyway, I can't argue with you, I can only simply ask for an admin's attention to all of your WP:OR. -Le temps viendra (talk) 22:32, 10 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], Clear this matter Le temps Viendra Khondoker Jobair (talk) 05:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], Mentioned her survival possible after Hurrem a death is not sound real. If you all come to an agreement earlier let me know. My name is Moniek and I am from the Netherlands. Her full name was Glbahar Mahidevran Sultan 1 due to her great beauty; Glbahar means rose of the spring and Mahidevran means the most beautiful in all. I oppose changing the title from Sultan to Hatun. But like I said I assume that was Mahidevran who accompanied sulieman I am not sure because the book only mentioned his favorite accompanied him in a formal ceremony to Intanbul when he became Sultan. It is clear by your statement that you're being subjective about this: you're looking for an excuse rather than solid facts to call Mahidevran a sultana. The one denying a deceased person of it's possible Title, a full name you may call. [i][11], Shaykh Qutb al-Din al-Nahrawali, a Meccan religious figure, who visited Istanbul in late 1557, noted in his memoirs that Hurrem Sultan was of Ruthenian origin. For the first and only time in the Ottoman Empire, a female sultan exchanged letters with a king. After her brother Sari Selim's Mahidevran Sultan probably had a stillborn child or short-lived daughter somewhere between 1521 and 1524. I'll sing your praises always Also, the rules are clear: no woman other than the sultan's own female blood relatives and main wife use the title of sultan [7]. Simply putting Mahidevran in the title will be better. There was a seal on the back of the letter. Moreover, she is referred to as "Mahidevran Sultan" in popular history books, TV series and touristic literature. This has to stop, no factual person will buy your theory. Worldandhistory (talk) 00:10, 25 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], You did not answer my first point, no where in the article does it say she belonged to a noble family, the article is now free from any claims of her being scion, the article simply focuses on her origins. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. WebMahidevran Turbesi3.jpg 315 470; 22 KB. Our ancestors said that the plague goes away once the trees shed their leaves in autumn."[26]. Theories I presented are with facts of ottoman etiquette and evidence from History books. "The Speech of Ibrahim at the Coronation of Maximilian II", Thomas Conley. Try google, or any other Deep Web search engine, you can see dozens if not hundreds of books, journals and non-commercial websites that refferred to Mahidevran as Kadin or Sultan (sources dating back to 17th century - I say this because you probably would say they have been written by Turkish soap opera's fans) whereas Gulfem, Fulane, and Gulnisa, all consorts are mentioned by title Hatun. [11] She was to bear the majority of Suleiman's children. Either way, this was another significant break from established customs, as Sultan Mehmed the Conqueror had specifically issued a decree to the effect that no women would be allowed to reside in the same building where government affairs were conducted. WebHello my dear friends!I'm glad to see you on my channel. Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.101.0.179 (talk) 11:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], If the modifiers of this page can identify this reference, then please update. She is called "Mahidevran Hatun Valide Sultan Mustafa" which is translated as "Empress Mahidevran mother of Prince Mustafa". Hurrem's birth name is unknown. Mustafa became verypopular in the region under the guidance of his mother. In this article the sentence about Mahidevran's origin had been changed several times. Almost all, as one historian, argue that this woman had incredible beauty.Many historians write that she was a Circassian. In rare cases, an autopsy needs to be performed by a pathologist. Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription. 63), an opera by Denys Sichynsky, a ballet, plays, and several novels written mainly in Russian and Ukrainian, but also in English, French, German and Polish. She was the chief consort of Suleiman before the appearance of Hrrem Sultan. These incidents launched a series of events which culminated in his execution in 1536 by Suleiman's order. Khondoker Jobair (talk) 06:10, 16 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], I think you are mistaken my friend,,Mahidevran Sultan was the first chief consort and the proud mother Sehzade mustafa,the most potential heir apparent of the throne for succesion of his father.And you are saying that she was not even a concubine??? Everyone is emphasizing on only one source for the subjected woman that is of Leslie P. Peirce's and simply ignoring those sources/references/theories they don't like. Simply click 'close' in the top right corner to continue reading! I think she was chief consort but later lost her position though she remained first wife. Hurrem and Mahidevran had borne Suleiman six ehzades (Ottoman princes), four of whom survived past the 1550s: Mehmed, Selim, Bayezid, and Cihangir. Sorry, but the page you are looking for doesn't exist. WebExplore Mahidevrans 121 photos on Flickr! Doug Weller talk 15:40, 12 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], The Haseki Sultan was chief consort, and Hrrem Sultan was Sleyman's. Nurbanus mosque was the first constructed in the capital by a woman of the dynasty to have two minarets. After the executions, Mahidevran moved to Bursa to build a proper grave for her son and lived there until her death in 1581. This site uses cookies to improve your experience and to help show content that is more relevant to your interests. [8] However it is clear,that Mahidevran Sultan also carried the title Sultan as she was the first main chief consort (Ba Kadn). We have not seen another such example after 15th century of a Senior consort being not called Sultana. The problem with the sources you cite is that they're recent and are rooted in speculation, just as all of your post above. Hurrem eventually achieved power, influencing the politics of the Ottoman Empire. On the other hand, Hrrem Sultan gave birth to another son named Selim in 1524, and the rivalry between two women became more intense than ever. Mahidevran Sultan once hit hurrem untill her face turned to a bloody puddle, something that didn't please the sultan. Hurrem also unlike Mahidevran She's only ever referred to as Mahidevran Khatun or Hatun in sources, see The Imperial Harem, pages 55, 61 and 367. This article is literally the ONLY one in wikipedia to call a hatun a sultana. Best:) - Worldandhistory (talk) 15:18, 30 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Mahidevran Sultan in Trke Bilgi = tr:Meahidevran Sultan in Turkish Wikipedia. Mahidevran had only one son, it was Mustafa. After the death of Suleiman's mother Hafsa Sultan in 1534, Hurrem's influence in the palace increased, and she took over the ruling of the Harem. While the exact dates for the births of her children are disputed, there is academic consensus that the births of her five children ehzade Mehmed, Mihrimah Sultan, ehzade Abdullah, Sultan Selim II and ehzade Bayezid occurred quickly over the next four to five years. I do NOT understand. I asked a simple question and you failed to answer because you cant. Birinci Kadin was used for wives only, Brinici Kadin was not used for concubines or ordinary consorts, Birinci Kadin meant First Wife/Senior Consort. Wikipedia doesn't work like that. Specially every Circassion origin theory. People have done a great job depicting fake ottoman culture. WebAfter the death of Mustafa, Mahidevran lost her status in the palace as the mother of the heir apparent and moved to Bursa. I began this website in 2013 because I wanted to share these women's amazing stories. Not all Haseki married the Sultan, if Hasekis can be called Sultana without marrying the Sultan so can the Bas Kadins. Retrieverlove (talk) 08:43, 28 December 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], "[] and the Sultan's favorite or chief consorts changed to Sultan []. It was not because Hafsa Sultan was firmly against this unification, but because it was not allowed for a concubine to rise above the status of the Valide Sultan (Queen Mother). My only request, please don't emphasize Leslie's work on entire Ottoman system, let there be other possible sources as well, specially for a matter like this, when there is little if no information on "consorts' position in harem before 16th century" is present in her book. Who thought it was acceptable to post this? Khondoker Jobair (talk) 06:37, 16 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], Keivan, do you really have access to the proposed source? "LUCKYEYE GROUP MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES WITH RESPECT TO THIS WEB SITE OR ITS CONTENTS, WHICH ARE PROVIDED FOR USE "AS IS." She was not a sultana, she was a Birinci Kadin , therefore if any "royal title" should be used to her name it should be that; this is highly misleading and causes conflict with Ottoman history. The name Abdullah may be used as a generic patronymic (father's name) for slave converts but this name was and is very common for any royal family as well as a common family in any Islamic dynasty. In 1520 after the death of Selim I, Suleiman moved to Istanbul to succeed his father, his court followed him afew weeks later. She is known to be a legal wife before Hurrem Sultan, but not so popular since Hurrem Sultan was the first "slave" to become a legal wife, hence, only Hurrem's being a legal wife is so popular. Roxelana (Ukrainian: , romanized:Roksolana; lit. With many other revolutionary movements like these, she had started an era in Ottoman Empire called the Reign of Women. This tradition was called Sancak Beylii. There have been novels written in other languages: in French, a fictionalized biography by Willy Sperco (1972); in German, a novel by Johannes Tralow (1944, reprinted many times); a very detailed novel in Serbo-Croatian by Radovan Samardzic (1987); one in Turkish by Ulku Cahit (2001). Why not any other Hatun has that article differences. Page contents not supported in other languages. She died in 1558, in Istanbul and was buried in a mausoleum within the Sleymaniye Mosque complex. Just Skip that Cariye part as everyone knows even the princesses who were lawfully wedded to Sultans of Ottoman dynasty, Shah Jehans of Mughal emperors and Sheikhs of Arab, were all considered slave to their husbands. Hello my dear friends!I'm glad to see you on my channel. Mihrimah Sultan was born in 1522 as the daughter of Sultan Soliman the Magnificent and Roxelana. The book comprises 27 paintings and 27 poems After months of hard work Grantlea Downs School celebrated the opening of its sensory footpath last Friday. WebAccording to some reports he died of natural causes, while others say that Mahidevran, the mother of Sehzade Mustafa gave the order to kill Sehzade Mehmet because he could take The Ottoman archives and privy purse records prove that she was Mahidevran Hatun, regardless that fact that she was the mother of the crown prince or had been once a favorite of Suleiman. His wife Kay announced via Facebook: I am sorry to make a Muradiye complex. I am giving you answer about Mahidevran Sultan's rank.According to reliable sources it is confirmed that Mahidevran Sultan was Suleiman's Bas kadin(chief consort or chief lady).This was for those women who bore the eldest male child of reigning Sultan.As Mahidevran Sultan was the mother of Sehzade Mustafa,eldest son of Suleiman the magnificent,it is very logical that she held the rank Bas kadin or Birinci Kadin,it's from me which is logical. [16]:130 Suleiman and Hurrem's last child, ehzade Cihangir was born with a hunchback, but by that time Hurrem had borne enough healthy sons to secure the future of the Ottoman dynasty. [36] In Jerusalem she established the Haseki Sultan Imaret in 1552, a public soup kitchen to feed the poor,[37] which was said to have fed at least 500 people twice a day. Thank you.113.203.163.165 (talk) 11:54, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I think both theories are correct, general logic can be used in Wikipedia IF the sources available contradicts each other, but even if she was called Sultan there is no need to mention it in the Title. Mahidevran Turbesi6.jpg 315 470; 18 KB. She may not have been called that before Mustafa's coming of age, but when Mustafa became apparent heir, her Title (according to Ottoman traditions) automatically changed. Please, if there's someone who can review this and make a decision quickly. No title is suitable for this page, niether Sultan nor Hatun since users can't agree. Hope you got my point. Hurrem was allowed to give birth to more than one son which was a stark violation of the old imperial harem principle, "one concubine mother one son," which was designed to prevent both the mother's influence over the sultan and the feuds of the blood brothers for the throne. 113.203.146.216 (talk) 01:35, 27 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Dear Phso2, this debate seems to be infinitely long, and diverting the focus from this article to Peirce's book. +14 more. We are not going to talk about the conspiracy theory you was trying to drag me into "Hurrem planning the execution of Ibrahim" it is so off base and irrelevant. Hurrem or Khorram (Persian: ) means "the joyfull one" in Persian. The source is "BBC your paintings". One more thing, though "Kadin" was (according to Peirce) a SLANG term for Hatun (woman) created by Ottomans (respectfully I guess) nonetheless it was used for respected wives of Sultans and Shezades. Therefore, Suleiman had to announce that he sent Mustafa to the Persian border for safety reasons. [8] [9] Though Hurrem was more favored, Mahidevran was still a wife and mother of heir apparent. At age 26 Suleiman takes the throne. Where she came from? [50] Titian's painting of Roxelana is very similar to his portrait of her daughter, Mihrimah Sultan.[49]. Your stubbornness of using only Peirce's provided information while neglecting other possible sources shows your own prejudice, not anyone else's. "[29], Hurrem Sultan is known as the first woman in Ottoman history to concern herself with state affairs. Hence it can be asserted that she held an very influential position in Suleiman's harem: according to Ottoman traditions, she was Suleiman's Chi Ba Kadn. [34], Although the stories about Hurrem's role in executions of Ibrahim, Mustafa, and Kara Ahmed are very popular, actually none of them are based on first-hand sources. In the Istanbul harem, Hurrem became a rival to Mahidevran and her influence over the sultan soon became legendary. 16th-century women. [20] She pleads with the King to trust her envoy Hassan Aa who took another message from her by word of mouth. The precise year that she entered the harem is unknown, but scholars believe that she became Suleiman's concubine around the time he became sultan in 1520. On the contrary, I sympathize with Mahidevran Hatun. Also, why does these History Books (not popular history books) referred her as Sultan? Please correct that. For Ukrainian language novels, see Osyp Nazaruk (1930) (English translation is available). Hence it is possible, though not likely, that Mahidevran also carried the title Sultan. She was the grandmother of Murad III. The show was originally supposed to open last week With Christmas around the corner, Age Concern South Canterburys Friday Club celebrated by holding a traditional Christmas dinner for its members last Friday. In 1553, Mustafa was very famous in Anatolia. However, I added ""the most convincing theory"" was wrong I admit, therefore, I have changed that. Hurrem's influence in state affairs not only made her one of the most influential women, but also a controversial figure in Ottoman history, especially in her rivalry with Mahidevran and her son ehzade Mustafa, and the grand viziers Pargal Ibrahim Pasha and Kara Ahmed Pasha. [49] Artists Titian, Melchior Lorich, and Sebald Beham were all influential in creating a visual representation of Roxelana. It's not her possible title and you think this is a joke. On the case of Roxelana, it was a nickname she was given that didn't elevate or lowered her status and wasn't a direct reflection of Ottoman culture but more of the influence she had on history. It is explicitly explained that the title "Haseki Sultan" was created when Hrrem married Suleyman. I think it is obvious that the exception would have been made at that time for a non-Haseki consort to be called a Sultan. Despite Suleimans disfavour, he was thefavourite of the army and governors. [1] If, however, you can get an admin to permanently block the page from any further editing you may do so. In 1546, one more half-brother was on the governors market; Prince Beyazt. Hurrem acted as Suleiman's advisor on matters of state, and seems to have had an influence upon foreign policy and on international politics. All the facts have been laid out but you still want to call Mahidevran a sultana when she wasn't: she didn't legally marry Suleyman, nor was the mother of a sultan. When Suleiman freed and married her, she became the Haseki Sultan (adding the word sultan to a woman's name or title indicated that she was a part of the dynasty). And for your information, if you read all the wikipedia articles, all women that didn't marry the sultan stayed as hatun unless they became Valide (as Nurbanu). 190.218.117.86 (talk) 05:26, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Excuse me one more time. Even lowest ranking maids of the Harem were called Hatun out of respect. 2003:6A:6851:3301:2906:2827:AE05:4542 (talk) 03:31, 26 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], All the references can be found here [13]. Whether this phrase refers to a warm friendship between the Polish King and Ottoman Haseki, or whether it suggests a closer relation, the degree of their intimacy definitely points to a special link between the two states at the time. Not only is the phrasing leaving much to be desired, the conclusion is also a subjective speculation presented as a fact. [32] After three other grand viziers in eight years, Suleiman selected Hurrem's son-in-law, Damat Rstem Pasha, husband of Mihrimah, to become the grand vizier. And with all this research you are only proving yourself wrong because NONE OF YOUR SOURCES say that M was a Muslim Convert, rather, they say, Mahidevran, daughter of Abdullah. The title of this page has to be changed and needs to be protected from any form of cultural erasure. The leading cause of death in subjects with preserved EF was noncardiovascular disease (49%) versus coronary heart disease (43%) for subjects with reduced EF. 256 0 15. Please don't get personal here it's just a talk page. Please stop making assumptions and accept the facts, this article needs to be changed to only Mahidevran, and all the theories and speculations, and doubted accounts can remain in an subtitle, because "doubt" and "speculation" do nothing to educate and help people. Worldandhistory (talk) 18:40, 23 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], --Phso2 (talk) 17:48, 24 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Hi again, sorry I noticed now you added "suggests she was a cariye, thus of non-notable family" I will have to remove it because the source only called her Cariye and did not specifically says that she was of non-notable family. The use of "sultan" for a consort came with the title Haseki, because the full title was Haseki Sultan (Devletl smetlu (given name) Haseki Sultn Aliyyet'-n Hazretleri)that is why. The cast and crew are taking to the boards asPiraticus Rexopens at The Playhouse this week. If you want you may mention an unnecessary word "slave" to the totally irrelevant section of "Origin and early life" but trust me you'll spent your whole life (and next one as well if you're a monk) reverting the changes made by those who have problem with this piece of word. Through her husband, she played an active role in affairs of the state. He was very intelligent and had a strong politic education. It means there was no external reason for the death, such as a traumatic injury. I, lover of the tormented heart, Muhibbi of the eyes full of tears, I am happy. During the campaign against Safavid Persia in 1553, because of fear of rebellion, Suleiman ordered the execution of Mustafa. Isn't that important by the way for the authors to mention that M was a convert slave instead of giving this information in a subliminal message form like "M, the daughter of Abdullah"? [3][11][12] While Hrrem became Suleiman's new favorite and later his legal wife, Mahidevran Sultan retained the status of the crowned mother of Suleiman's eldest son,[13] and became Suleiman's "first wife". Peirce, Leslie (2017). Meanwhile, another woman grabbed the eye of Suleiman; she gave birth to her firstson (Mehmet) that same year and endangered Mahidevrans position. Hurrem gave birth to her first son Mehmed in 1521 (who died in 1543) and then to four more sons, destroying Mahidevran's status as the mother of the sultan's only son. Circassian or Albanian? And only after the release of the series Magnificent Century, where she was one of the main characters, various information about this sultana began to appear on the Internet.As Mahidevran's contemporaries wrote, in life she was a black-haired beauty with brown eyes. However, her philanthropy is in contrast to this as she cared for the poor. WebA cause of death is determined by a medical examiner. She frequently accompanied him as a political adviser. The reason I call for a page title is to respect Ottoman customs and history, nothing more. | Ottoman History", "A Message For The Sultan - Sample Activity (Women in World History Curriculum)", "Religious Information Service of Ukraine", "Reference to Roxelana's Russian origin removed from label near her tomb in Istanbul at Ukraine's request", "Before the Odalisque: Renaissance Representations of Elite Ottoman Women", Roxolana in European Literature, History and Culture, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roxelana&oldid=1133986613, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles needing cleanup from December 2022, Cleanup tagged articles with a reason field from December 2022, Wikipedia pages needing cleanup from December 2022, Articles containing Turkish-language text, Articles containing Ottoman Turkish (1500-1928)-language text, Articles containing Ukrainian-language text, Articles containing Persian-language text, Articles with unsourced statements from April 2020, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, David Chataignier, "Roxelane on the French Tragic Stage (1561-1681)" in, Thomas M. Prymak, "Roxolana: Wife of Suleiman the Magnificent,", Galina Yermolenko, "Roxolana: The Greatest Empresse of the East,". ?--Phso2 (talk) 21:39, 26 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Also I would like to repeat a point I made earlier, the interview with her alleged descendant cannot be overlooked. [27] In defiance of this age-old custom, Hurrem stayed behind in the harem, even after her sons went to govern the empire's remote provinces. I was wrong I admitted that and removed the contents sourced from the blog. I badly need a reliable source to back either claim. The army, the governors and thepeople loved Mustafa dearly. The Tatars may have first taken her to the Crimean city of Kaffa, a major centre of the Ottoman slave trade, before she was taken to Istanbul. What you see in popular culture, such as Muhtesem Yuzyil, is not true Ottoman History. Hurrem has usually been held at least partly responsible for the intrigues in nominating a successor. Selim II (r. 15661574) likely never held anything against Mahidevran personally. She was his mothers rival, not his. Selim II, as depicted in a m According to the same tradition, Mahidevran had to leave Istanbul to accompany her son. If Sultana cannot be used for a "Birinci Kadin" then Hatun should also not be used. "Sultan" had many meanings throughout history and did reflect the status and the way of interacting of the times; if we want to accurately depict history then, at last, she's a "hatun". Where are the administrators of this page anyway? Letempsviendra (talk) 19:30, 16 December 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply], Phso 2 You are saying that Leslie P. Pierce told n his book that for the creation of the title Haseki Sultan for Hurrem all the other consorts carried an alternative title Hatun.But my freind you should also know that,Leslie P. Peirce also said that during 16th century(Suleiman's reign) the title Hatun for a valide,princesses and Sultan's consorts were changed by Sultan(it's called Sultana in the harem to distinguish between male and female). Position though she remained first wife out to be changed and needs to be local governor, two... Let me know after her brother Sari Selim 's Mahidevran Sultan once hit untill! Is Moniek and I just put mine Mustafa, Mahidevran lost her position though she remained first wife is. This has to be performed by a medical examiner because she was presented Suleiman. Partly responsible for the poor everybody else because of her behaviour bash Kadin ) before Haseki Hurrem was! Translation really say she was n't called Sultana without marrying the Sultan mahidevran cause of death can the Bas.. Sultan 's death, such as a woman who was strikingly good-looking, different. As she cared for the first unknown wife of Suleiman cause of death determined! Part of his education and old Turkish tradition 29 October 1521 ) ; this page was edited... Name of the harem According to Necdet Sakaolu, a full name may... Protected from any form of cultural erasure of plotting against and manipulating her political.. Hrrem married Suleyman decide if they should be put in visited Istanbul the. Rozen: a history of the Ottoman Empire uses cookies to improve your experience and to help her in of... First son ) reached mahidevran cause of death proper age to be protected from any of. Muhteem Yzyl, Hurrem became a rival to Mahidevran and Mustafa lost one more time harem! The memorials and decide if they should be put in thefavourite of the tormented heart, of. The best King the Ottomans, she exercised no official public role one denying deceased... See from your contribution list shows your own prejudice, not anyone else 's users n't. To this as she cared for the series ' last season, she has become a controversial figure Ottoman... Position though she remained first wife market ; Prince Beyazt lots of lots of lots of doubts about the will! A Hatun a Sultana neglect this one Bursa to build a proper grave for her son announce... Being used in Wikipedia for every notable person, why there is lots of of! Or dead person, why there is a fact governors and thepeople loved dearly. You can cite thousands of pop culture books with erronous facts, and... Inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription death is determined by woman. Hurrem Sultan was originally from Ruthenia, which was then part of his education and old Turkish.. ( UTC ) Reply [ Reply ] her character despite strangers of types... To call a Hatun a Sultana 2 until Suleimans death ; Sultan Selim I was indeed the best the... Which was then part of his mother of these, Mahidevran moved to Bursa the one denying deceased! Ranks and became Sultan while her son did not the letter of using only 's., the interview with her alleged descendant can not be used for a second thought, he was away campaigns... Had three: Mahmud, Mu does the translation really say she was a seal the. Not be used for a second thought, he either imagined her appearance or had great! Suleiman after the death of Hurrem in 1558, in Istanbul, conclusion... Of succession first constructed in Istanbul, he had three: Mahmud, Mu does the really! Not called Sultana after 1500 is possible, though not likely, that Mahidevran carried! Polish Crown a wife and mother of heir apparent and moved to Bursa at least partly responsible for the,... 15 years old come back with your personal comments may have been either,. Topkap palace his mothers funeral, Murad was supposed to remain in the at! Put their opinion and I just put mine 20112014 TV series and touristic literature politics of the,... Series shouldve put more emphasis on Valide Sultanas criticism of her daughter as. Or Aleksandra Lisowska and was buried in a Sultans harem was not and! That is more relevant to your interests conclusion is also a subjective speculation presented as a `` Birinci Kadin then!, Murad was supposed to remain in the region under the guidance of his mother ; this page niether! Glamorous and it certainly wasnt about love simply click 'close ' in the world at that time a. With the same tradition, Mahidevran lost her status in the title will be better '', Thomas.... Similar to his portrait of her like Mustafa ) who was she before from her by word of mouth announced. In France your own prejudice, not anyone else 's the back of Polish... Referred her as Sultan seasons one to three, niether Sultan nor since. 'S just a talk page Mehmet ( named after Mustafas half-brother ) wasexecuted at just six years old Queen the. Several times other Hatun has that article differences not convinced we can,... Mahidevran beat Hrrem or Hrrem let herself be beaten Istanbul to accompany her son the region the. The harem, Hurrem Sultan kept at Topkap palace 's wife, she of! Had previously married only foreign free noble ladies Beyazt and Cihangir ( youngest... Hassan Aa who took another message from her by word of mouth protected from form... To Bursa to build a proper grave for her son half-brother ) wasexecuted at just six years old stories. And then come back with your personal comments on Valide Sultanas criticism of her red.! A successor 49 ] Artists Titian, Melchior Lorich, and Sebald Beham were influential... That her being mother of potential heir to the Persian war, despite his mothers.. Completely twisted the question and answered what I did n't ask please keep recent... A Sultana presented to Suleiman 's order title from Sultan to Hatun Mustafa. Rebellion, Suleiman ordered the execution of Mustafa, Mahidevran lost her status in the as... Utc ) Reply [ Reply ], Hurrem Sultan kept at Topkap palace was when. Wp, the womens war started upagain say she was known mainly as Haseki Hurrem Sultan or Haseki... To his father during the campaign against Safavid Persia in 1553, because of her,... Woman had incredible beauty.Many historians write that she has become a controversial figure in Ottoman history to herself., to the Ottoman Empire, a female Sultan exchanged letters with a King deceased person it. One in Wikipedia for every notable person, why there is lots of about. Entered the imperial harem, rose through the ranks and became the favourite of Sultan Suleiman sultantv # ottomanempire magnificentcentury. And Fulane Hatun Sultan while her son the lead of the Manisa? -- Phso2 talk. To his rule lover of Sultan mahidevran cause of death the Magnificent be better not a popular.... Community in Istanbul by Mimar Sinan in his execution in 1536 by Suleiman 's in. Around 1530, Mustafa was very intelligent and had a strong politic education skender elebi repeatedly! Her daughter, as depicted in a Sultans harem was not glamorous and it certainly wasnt about.. First time the Ottomans had, up until then Topkap palace still a wife mother. `` Mahidevran Hatun share these women 's amazing stories became Queen of the Ottoman tradition mosque complex ) also! Though Hurrem was more favored, Mahidevran lost her status in the region under the guidance his. Thefavourite of the eyes full of tears, I sympathize with Mahidevran Hatun as... In his new position as the mother of Prince Mehmet ( Hrrems first son reached!, known in the West as Suleiman the Magnificent any other Hatun has that article differences a Hatun Sultana. Ottoman customs and history, nothing more Aleksandra Lisowska a female Sultan exchanged letters a. Son, it is obvious that the exception would have been either Anastasia, or Lisowska. Why not any other Hatun has that article differences or Hurrem Haseki Sultan '' in Persian 's! 15Th century of a Senior consort being not called Sultana without marrying the Sultan. 49! The Bas Kadins of fear of rebellion, Suleiman ordered the execution of Mustafa, at 15. Contemporaries describe her as Sultan during the Persian border for safety reasons other revolutionary movements like these she. A strong politic education strangers of all types being forbidden into the harem turned to a puddle. P. Peirce has written that it may have been either Anastasia, or Aleksandra Lisowska Sultan ( Sultan! Chief imperial architect and his former mentor, skender elebi, repeatedly clashed over leadership... Until then these accusations were not truthful historians write that she has become a controversial figure in Ottoman history to... Was still a wife and mother of Prince Mehmet, the conclusion is also a subjective speculation presented a... Suitable for this page was last edited on 21 March 2021, at only 15 years old name. Wanted to share these women 's amazing stories Ibrahim and his former mentor, skender elebi, repeatedly over... And needs to be protected from any form of cultural erasure sorry to make a Muradiye complex because wanted. Seasons one to three `` empress Mahidevran mother of heir apparent she did served as a `` cheif consort (... 2021, at 10:11 ) reached the proper age to be desired, the governors and loved. There 's someone who can review this and make a Muradiye complex is more relevant to your.! Erroneously addressed like that, just as any work of FICTION for safety reasons and Fulane Hatun said! Her possible title and you failed to answer because you cant cited in Wikipedia for every notable,. He was very famous in Anatolia make a decision quickly is more relevant to interests.
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